#2013-oct

Chicon 2013 Misha Collins Solo Panel

Fan: Okay, so I was wondering, on Thursday I think, you tweeted that “You’re not crazy” and then about 25 minutes later you said, “I might be though.” So, I was wondering what exactly happened in those 25 minutes? (audience cheers and laugh) Misha: I was, uh- I was trying- I- there- there was a lot of, uh, drama on the internet. I don’t know if- (Fan: “Yeah.”) -you know about the internet or about drama (audience giggles) but there was- There seemed to be a lot of it in the Supernatural fandom, um-

Audience member: A little bit. (some audience members profess obviously faked surprise) Misha: Maybe I was imagining it, I don’t know. (members of the audience say no) Um, but, uh, I was trying to, uh, to sort of, uhhh... be a voice of- of support to, uh, (audience claps) to people who were, um, upset (audience cheers) Um… yeah. Ironically, I mean, when I say, uh... crazy is kind of a compliment coming from- I don’t know. Um, is that really a nice thing to say to somebody, “You’re not crazy?” I don’t know. Um... but, uh… yeah. Um, certainly. It’s uh- a l- I actually- I don’t know really what was going on, all I know is that I got an email from- oh, bah bah bah (waves his hand in dismissal). Um, it has to do with, you know, Destiel, and uh-

Fan: Yeah. (audience groans) Misha: -and (some cheers in the audience) Cas- Cas having sex, and people on the show commenting on it, and things like that. Um, and, uh... (hears a noise and looks to his right) Are those tears? Did I- my- (laughs) No? Yes? Um, uh, what did you guys think? Did- were- are you guys upset? Happy? Sad? (audience yells No) No to which? I asked three questions. (audience laughs) Not upset? (audience yells No) Yes upset? (audience mostly yells no, but a few loudly yell yes) Yeah. Well, it sounds like a little confusion going on here. (audience giggles)

Audience member: More sex! Misha: More sex, is that right? (audience cheers and claps) Um, yeah, alright. Um... I don’t know what to say. I mean, yeah, I’d love to talk about it, but I don’t really know what to say. Um, I do think that, uh, you know,  that- that the relationship between Dean and Cas is a very intense, very important relationship. Um, whether that’s ever going to be, uh, consummated in, uh, (audience laughs) sexual congress on, um, broadcast television or not, I- I can’t speak to. But, um, the uh... you know, as far- from the perspective of my character, Dean is like, the only- at times, the only being in the universe, human, angel, or otherwise, that he has any connection to, so it’s very, you know, profound bond, as they say. As I say. Um, uh... But, uh... It is interesting from my perspective to see how s- how so many people are so emotionally invested in the show, in relation to the show. Um, you would never- I mean, if you were on set, it’s, “Really? People- people care about this?” (audience giggles) Um, because-

Audience member: We don’t have representation! Misha: It’s about representation? Representation of?

Audience member: LGBT! Misha: Yes, I- okay, so… It’s about representation of the- of the LGBT community? Um… Yeah, I mean, I can see how you could, um… I don’t know. I think it’s- I think it’s also about interpretation and- and allowing the audience to work with the material. I mean, it’s- it’s, it’s an interactive, um, experience, where the audience is- each audience member experiences the show in a different way, and I think that we are cognizant of that- I’m certainly cognizant of that, and, um, very, um, interested in keeping that, uh, open for interpretation. Um, but, you know, different people watch the sh- show through completely different lenses. Some people watch the show because they’re into, you know, classic cars. And some people watch the show because they, you know, read homoerotic, uh, subtext into it. (audience giggles and some cheer) And some people, you know, watch the show because they hate demons. (audience laughs) Um, and… and, um… And I kind of- I, personally, want that to be, um, as open a door as possible and to, you know, and to have that be available imagination fodder for as many people as possible. Um-

Audience: (Claps and cheers loudly) Misha: And I certainly don’t- I- I- I certainly don’t want to disparage any group that has any given interpretation on the show, perspective on it. Um, uh, but at the same time, people who don’t share that- even if the people, like, you know, uh, t- the people working on the show don’t all watch the show. People writing the show aren’t even writing from the same perspective. Like, everybody who’s involved in it has a different perspective. Um, I think some writers, um, you know, some writers are- are layering in, you know, uh… things that other writers aren’t. (waves his hand) Um, and so, you know, studio executives are watching it, uh, through one lens and some through another. Um, poor Chad Kennedy, to- uh- to- (laughs) He is an awesome guy, you guys, uh, the executive, that got, uh, some, uh, pushback on his Twitter account. Um, he just didn’t- he didn’t know how mean you guys are, that’s all. (audience laughs) Um, no, I’m kidding. He’s a- he’s a really great, really intelligent, really thoughtful person, um, who... put his hand in- into the mouth of a lion. Um… (looks at and then gestures to the audience) I don’t know. I- I don’t know if I’m... uh…

Audience: (Various members say things the mic doesn’t pick up) Misha: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I- we can. It’s something that I find interesting but, um, we don’t have to talk about it. Um...

Context: Season 9 episode 3 “I’m No Angel” aired on October 22 at 9/8 central. The episode was written by Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, and directed by Kevin Hooks. After watching the episode, Destiel fans were upset that Castiel had sex with the female reaper, April Kelly, as an exploration on his newfound humanity. Some fans felt like April coerced homeless, powerless Castiel into sleeping with her, making it rape. Not helped by April lying about who she was and then torturing and killing Castiel later in the episode. And, though it’s not mentioned in these tweets below, some factions were also upset that Dean told Cas he couldn’t stay in the bunker at the end of the episode because Gadreel threatened to leave Sam if Cas stayed. All in all, several fans invested in Castiel and/or the Dean/Cas relationship felt like they were being specifically singled out/slighted by the spn direction and tptb.

(Supposedly, before the episode aired Adam directed people to talk to Chad but we do not have evidence of this currently)

Chad Kennedy happened to be tweeting fans around the time 9x03 aired. Where he then revealed to fans that canon Destiel wasn’t in the plans as of then (2013). Below are the are screenshots that were taken by various fans before Kennedy decided to delete his twitter account:

chadfkenn: “This will not end well” xceteras: “chadfkenn No kidding. East coast viewers already found that out in abundance! Sad how platonic Dean/Cas seem to have ended up.” chadfkenn: “xceteras oh, c’mon!!!” xceteras: “chadfkenn Woah wasn’t expecting a response! Not sure which you object to though- that it seemed platonic, or that being platonic is sad?” chadfkenn: “xceteras i’m always listening” xceteras: “chadfkenn Well that addresses the first part but not the second. Thanks for listening though. I appreciate it.” chadfkenn: “It’s the community’s comments about Dean and Cas being platonic. But what you do with slash fiction is your biz... #supernatural” xceteras: “chadfkenn Which community says what? Confused. Slash fiction is great but it would mean a helluva lot to me to have an actual bi lead char.” chadfkenn: “xceteras I support the idea of bi lead chars. But on this specific show, it is not our intention for these chars. Clearer? #supernatural” - 9:35 PM 22 Oct 13

xceteras: “chadfkenn Thank you, that’s very clear. I appreciate it a lot. Would have loved to have heard it earlier, but now is better than never.” Arielle_san: “chadfkenn xceteras Oh must u say with such certainty? We know its not a priority but the hope of D/C means alot to many of us lgbt fans” chadfkenn: “I’ll put it this way: don’t know if we’ll ever go there, but don’t know for sure that we never will... #Supernatural” batalene: “chadfkenn xceteras I’m glad you were honest, we were needing it. It would be nice if someone had said it earlier. But thank you, really.” destiel_my _otp: “chadfkenn Thank you for your honesty. Wish rthompson1138 adamglass44 TheJimMichaels had just come out and said this months ago.”

chadfkenn: “Yotsubii I never said bisexual characters couldn’t happen on SPN. There is not, nor has there ever been, an issue with lgbtq chars” chadfkenn: “I have never been pitched Destiel. If it were pitched and the story made sense, I would not block it. I do not create story.”

M_Bow: “chadfkenn If the show does go platonic with them, it will lose a LOT of viewers--the destiel fandom is huge!” chadfkenn: “M_Bow the show goes long enough, I suppose anything is possible. Keep watching? #supernatural” M_Bow: “chadfkenn You just said there was on intention of making the characters bisexual. Which means to me that the show intends to queerbait.” chadfkenn: “M_Bow that would be awful if it were true. I hope you don’t believe that. I do believe they have a closer-than-friends rel #supernatural” M_Bow: “chadfkenn Going there would be groundbreaking and historic for television. chadfkenn: M_Bow you are preaching to the choir. I STRONGLY support better representation of the gamut of sexual orientation on TV. I hear your frust.

(for more tweets that occurred during this time please visit the FandomDebunker’s tumblr post: [source])

(...) Lynn: In the scene where Dean is trying to convince Sam not to go with Death, and says that memorable line, “There ain’t no me if there ain’t no you,” alot of us weren’t sure if that was actually Dean — if Ezekiel sent Dean in to convince Sam and then switched places with him to possess Sam — or if that was Ezekiel looking like Dean. When you were doing that scene, how were you playing it?

Jensen: I was playing it as Ezekiel.

Lynn: (gasping rather dramatically) Noooooo, that’s not the answer I want!

Jensen: (probably rolling his eyes a little at Lynn. Which is totally understandable) Sorry!

He went on to explain that Ezekiel was, however, expressing Dean’s genuine feelings about Sam, but putting it in words that Dean himself probably would never say out loud.

Lynn: *looks less traumatized*

In other words, the line was the truth, but we all know that Dean’s not very good at putting his feelings out there, which even Lynn had to admit was true. Jensen said similar things have happened in other scenes between Dean and Cas and between Dean and Sam. [ETA again, omg this is exhausting – another person who was there posted a clarification of what was said – thanks!]. Jensen said something about the scene with Cas beating Dean up, there was consideration of Dean saying ‘I love you,’ but it didn’t seem like something Dean would actually come out and say, so it was changed to ‘We’re family’ (My interpretation is that in both cases, he was talking about familial love, hence the change to ‘we’re family’. I also thought that might explain how certain priceless S8 gag reel scenes happened…) There have been times when they’ve considered the same for Sam and Dean, but the brothers just aren’t guys who are able to express their feelings openly. Jensen did leave Lynn with a bit of hope though.

Jensen: They should save that for the finale, then the brothers can finally say how they feel. (...)

Context: Adam is pointing twitter fans to follow and interact with Chad Kennedy:

AdamGlass44: “Ok #SPNFamily u all need 2 say hello & follow chadfkenn. Chad covers our show 4 WB an is not only our partner in crime but a REAL fan too.” - 9:44 PM Oct 14, 2013

[source]

AdamGlass44: “Basically, chadfkenn hears every story we do and gives us notes on it. So send him some luv, he truly cares and knows his #SPN lore.”- Oct 14, 2013

rthompson1138: “chadfkenn AdamGlass44 he does, however, have notes about your tweet” - Oct 14, 2013

rthompson1138: “.chadfkenn AdamGlass44 seriously, though-- if you're an #SPN fan, give Chad a follow and a hi-- he's added so much awesome to this show.” - Oct 14, 2013

AdamGlass44: “rthompson1138 chadfkenn That's why he needs a 1000 followers by manana. And please send all complaints to him. Guess I'm getting notes now” - 10:21PM Oct 14, 2013

On October 14, 2013, Robbie tweeted out this to Chad Kennedy:

This Tweet is unavailable. rthompson1138: “chadfkenn if i may give you a note, i think you misspelled “passionate”

[source]

Chad Kennedy’s account has been since deleted but these old screenshots show the original tweet:

Context: On October 25, Mochachick8 tweeted Misha Collins referencing Kennedy’s and Bee’s tweets. 

mochachick8: “mishacollins You’ll never read this or reply, but FWIW.” “October 24, 2013, 3:04 AM I have supported Supernatural for years and have gotten so many people to watch that I’ve lost count. The reason I loved it? It was a dysfunctional family dynamic with two brothers who by rights would have been the ‘cool kids’ and frat boys who were as nerdy and ‘fish out of water’ as I was. I also felt that the cast and crew loved all their fans equally (maybe that was naive) and appreciated our differences and diversity.

When I was growing up I was bullied unmercifully. So, Supernatural to me was a place of belonging where that would never happen. I would never be made to feel worthless or made fun of or treated as a second class fan whose viewership doesn’t matter whose feelings don’t matter. I would never be made fun of by the cast or crew because they wanted me there to enjoy the journey along with them.

Now? I just feel alienated and made to feel stupid because I saw something that they didn’t. Fine, I can live with that. But to be talked down to? To be made to feel worthless as a fan because I saw something they didn’t? To be made to feel that they don’t care whether I watch or not? That is just not what I signed on for. I know that you’ll probably delete this without even reading it and that you don’t care about one person’s feelings, but I just had to let you know that directors and writers of one of your shows are being insulting and alienating some of your viewership.

Honestly? At this point I’m not sure whether I’ll watch the show again. I won’t say never but my feelings are incredibly hurt at this point. I don’t expect a response but thank you for taking the time to read this.

Lisa” - 12:55 AM Oct 25, 2013

[source]

Misha tweeted back to mochachick8 confused:

mishacollins: “mochachick8 what are you talking about? I honestly don’t know and your letter isn’t specific. Who? What?” - 1:20 AM Oct 25, 2013

[source]

Fans then started sending him the Daily Dot article and information on all what had been said the past few proceeding days. An hour later Misha vaguely tweets out: 

mishacollins: “You’re not crazy.” - 2:38 AM Oct 25, 2013

[source]

And then thirty minutes later tweets with: 

mishacollins: “i might be though.” - 3:20 AM Oct 25, 2013

Context: Daily Dot, a destiel slanted or biased media news site, reported and summarized the event between the Destiel fans and the spn cast and crew over episode 9x03 and Kennedy-gate the afternoon of October 24. The article was updated on Jan 27, 2021.

(...) “But Destiel has always been a dark horse given Supernatural’s depiction of its three main male characters as emphatically straight. While few would deny that the show’s emphasis on male bonding and figurative brotherhood is full of homoerotic undertones, there’s no reason to believe that in its last seasons, the CW’s most popular show will stop being anything but relentlessly heterosexual. The logic of those frustrated with the fans who tweeted at Kennedy is simple: Why waste time arguing about it when it’s never going to happen?

Possible Context: On October 23 some destiel factions were circulating a campaign of sorts on tumblr asking fellow destiel enthusiasts to tweet at the spn writers and crew about their concerns and wants for canon destiel in the show because of Chad Kennedy’s tweets on Oct 22.

Do you believe Dean and Castiel’s romance serves the story?

Tweet TPTB your thoughts on this romance and them effectively shutting door for Dean and Castiel:

Writers

     • rthompson1138      • adamglass44      • robertberens      • danloflin      • jennydelherpes      • charmzies      • andrewdabb

SPN Crew:

     • cw_spn      • cw_network      • thejimmichaels (Producer)      • TAronauer (Producer)      • chico6 (Publicist)      • guynormanbee (Director)

Now is not the time to be silent.

If you have something to say, tweet it to the series. Even if you’re leaving the show for good, let them know this relationship has meant to you, why you supported it, and why it was more than just “slash fiction” to you.

Listen to this playlist. Did we make all this up? [x]

[source] [playlist]

The campaign above might be why the thread below happened:

janicec678: “TheJimMichaels guynormanbee Sorry to hear of a small group of viewers behaving badly. Please know that most of us are NOT like that!!” guynormanbee: “janicec678 TheJimMichaels Funny thing is I have nothing to do with the way the show is written, same with Jim -I’m just a guest director!” janicec678: “guynormanbee TheJimMichaels It’s embarrassing when a small group of people can reflect so badly on a great fandom that loves everyone w/SN” guynormanbee: “janicec678 TheJimMichaels I’m not sure how people get upset and offended when a storyline that doesn’t exist... doesn’t exist!”- 1:10 AM Oct 24, 2013

[source]

Bee’s other responses to other fans tweeting at or tweeting about his statement of destiel not existing mostly consisted of different variations of “Please leave me out of this conversations” (click the link for more of Bee’s tweets many of the upset fan tweets have been since deleted though)

14 hours later and Bee was still getting tweets about the situation. Some even following him to other threads:

TheNenya: “guynormanbee loved your directing in #SPN “Devil May Care”! Amazing episode. And admire your patience with the fans. guynormanbee: “TheNenya Thanks Nina! Some people just need to vent their anger somewhere... Why me? I have no idea?” - 2:23 PM Oct 24, 2013

[source]

TheNenya: “guynormanbee loved your directing in #SPN “Devil May Care”! Amazing episode. And admire your patience with the fans. guynormanbee: “JustaCasgirl enough already, OK, we get it, you’re offended or something... Got it”

[source]

JustaCasgirl’s tweet has since been deleted but this old screenshot shows their tweet: