#*chat: will

mir

ok so. my krem/dorian thing originates since before the game came out where i was just like "you are both so hot and date each other"

but then the whole bull/dorian catastrophe gave me really extensive thoughts on krem/dorian being an especially good thing and

helping sort all the shit out and i. hold on i have a thing

mother FUCKER i didnt' realize that twitter doesn't keep direct messages infinitely back in time lmao cool i didn't copy paste those

i figured i'd just go get it all later and it's all gone! cool!

ok

basically dorian/bull is mutually toxic and shitty as hell and i think krem/dorian is good bc reasons and i'm frustrated now

will

Do u remember most of it?

mir

yeah but it was a long thing and i'm really frustrated i wanted to share those dorianbull thoughts honestly

oh wel i guess while i'm here time to copy all these embarrassing sexy headcanons from the other day lmao

will

I heard some stuff abt dorian bull

mir

it was really good dorian meta mostly honestly it was just all about like. his drinking problem and his self hate issues and ugh

will

Ah yeah.

I just want him to b w someone who helps him b his best

mir

basically ppl on either side of the dorianbull argument are way too extreme. either they're like "bull did nothing wrong and they

are in a totally happy and healthy relationship and dorian chose it 100% and doesn't have a drinking problem and nothing is toxic"

or they're like "the iron bull is a literal abusive horrible demon from hell who just wants to rape dorian while he's drunk" like Woah buddy

bull has a clearly defined line in his head between "his people" and "everyone else" and yeah he does to an extent see them as not people?

so like there's that right off the bat. and u can't tell me bull wouldn't see dorian as a conquest. like he would. for sure.

but he's also not completely without regard for consent so i'm sure he would stop if dorian said no but the thing is dorian WONT

dorian hates himself. that's the most important thing to remember about their relationship is that dorian fucking hates himself

he preens about his looks so much bc somewhere along the line he got this idea in his head that the only thing he has of value is that

he's just a pretty face with good breeding that he squandared and he's trying to be a good person but it's really fucking hard

and people like. often won't even LET him like they don't give him the chance to learn or grow or change things or help??? it's shit

so anyway dorian is here and he's trying and he's suffering and he's scared and he's blaming himself for some part of this of course

bc he's taken on this ridiculous mantle of like. I Am The Redeemer Of All Tevinter therefore somehow the venatori are his Personal Problem??

but he's. alone. a non romanced dorian even one who is close w the inquisitor is alone a lot of the time and alone in That way anyway

and we know he spends a lot of his time hating himself and drinking by himself. and bull. lives where the drinks are. so it's.

it's canon that they started out with one drunk hookup and it goes from there. my thoughts is just. it's not a good time.

dorian hates himself and is deeply ashamed and he's ashamed even of the good parts. he's ashamed it happened and he's ashamed he liked any

of it and he wants to erase it from history from his mind from anything but bull is smug and also dorian never said no

so dorian hears about it again. and bull drops hints he'd be down for another round whenever dorian wanted. and dorian. hates himself. so.

so like he doesn't go down to the tavern thinking "i'm going to go let this qunari fuck me in ways i don't want bc i hate myself" but also

that's basically what he does. like. he doesn't think he deserves better? it happens and he's like "this is what i deserve"

and bull probably knows dorian isn't completely happy or unaltered in his consent but on the surface dorian doesn't say no and

will

Yeah dorian has a LOT of self esteem issues and

With the inquisitor you get to help him see some of the better things abt himself

mir

bull honestly doesn't care about him as a person enough to push it all that much??? like he's just an accessory to the boss and like

bull clearly sees the inquisitor as a person but. dorian's just a guy. a guy who will let bull do anything to him. repeatedly. w/o complaint. 

bull isn't a bad person per se but like. he's. not a person. he has a very different way of seeing and feeling than a person why do ppl not acknowledge this. anyway

dorian thinks this is what he deserves but what dorian NEEDS is someone to tell him no you don't deserve that you deserve gentleness

dorian doesn't even realize he's seeking out more sharp edges to cut him on basically but he is. he goes back to bull bc it's like

it's easier to keep hating yourself if you keep having more reasons and it's? like? low self esteem is a hell of a drug

when you feel yourself almost getting out of a bad mental place it's so easy to have it pull you back down

like. when ru first notices something's wrong they're like "are you okay please tell me what's going on" and he snaps at them like

"who do you think you are, my parents? i'm an adult i can make my own choices, i know what i want" and ru's like. stunned for a second

and then they're like "i just want you to be happy. and safe. and i want to know you're actually making those choices for yourself"

dorian gets himself in way too deep and he can't get out and he's miserable and when he finally tells ru the's just like

will

:(

mir

"this is my fault and i deserve it i deserve everything he's not a bad person i just let him hurt me i want him to i'm disgusting"

and ru is like "no you're not and no you don't and you are coming the fuck home with me when we're done with this"

"and that is going to be the last decision anyone ever makes for you ok"

will

I mean ur right on point

mir

ru marches straight to bull and is like excuse me but i have something to say to you. bull's like hey boss what's up

ru rolls back their sleeves. punches bull in the face. he's like "damn that actually hurt i assume you have a reason for that??"

will

Does ru basically adopt dorian??

mir

"look. i know he won't say it. there's reasons for that that don't need to be explained in public or honestly ever unless he chooses to, but

he won't say what he actually wants. he won't tell you to stop. so i'm telling you. he's mine, not yours, alright? my people.

touch him again and it's the last time you have hands, i don't care how useful they are to me or the inquisition, got it?"

and of course bull respects that and is honestly a little dismayed at himself for obviously having taken the thing w dorian too far

ru goes back to dorian and tells him it's over and he's just like what do you mean it's over and they're just. it's. over.

when we seal that big hole in the sky, you're coming back with me, and i'll personally fist fight the keeper if he tries to turn you out

dorian laughs and is just like. now that i'd like to see. on second thought, i'd prefer to meet him on better terms?

ru's like. well. so would i. but i don't care. i'd do it. honestly i'd do anything for you so just. don't. don't think no one loves you

because i do. you. big stupid shem asshole i do i love you alright and i know it doesn't come with the. whatever. but. i love you

ru tries to wrap their head around the whole sexy relationships thing but honestly they're just like. i'm too ace for this

will

fair

mir

"anyway i don't care if you can't say it or whatever. i know you love me too. so just. stop letting people hurt you

you deserve better. you do. you can't see it but you do. you've got me and surely my impeccable taste is proof that you're worth it?"

he just laughs and leans his head down on ru's shoulder. they just kind of. sit there together for a while. and then he just says thank you

anyway my. point was. originally. bull isnt a bad person? exactly? i mean. he's not a person. so.  but he does abuse dorian. and dorian does let it happen but he's still a victim

it's a lot more complicated than anyone's making it. and. anyway. apparently end canon with neither romanced puts them together

so in my other timelines i've got the idea that yeah. he goes with the chargers. and bull. but like. krem's the one who notices

and krem gets really angry with bull bc like. he trusted him and he's like? treating dorian like a toy instead of a person?

can't he hear the edge underneath the jokes dorian tells can't he see that he's drinking more and more every day can't he see it

and if he can then what the fuck is wrong with him and what happened to the bull who saved krem's life without knowing his name

like. dorian's not perfect. but he's a good guy. surely bull can see that. surely he cares. he abandoned the ben hassrath for the chargers

and for the inquisition. surely that means he values people more than... whatever it was he was before. he can't just be a weapon anymore

dorian drinks a lot. he gets sloppy and krem and dalish are always the ones there to listen to him and to prop him up and help him out

the chargers have started caring for dorian as one of their own and it really stands out to them that bull seems to have. not.

bull always makes everyone feel comfortable with who they are but he seems to do the opposite to dorian and at first like

krem assumes that's alright and that's what they're in for and alright whatever not his place to say but. dorian talks to krem sometimes

and he starts just. reminding krem of the way he felt. before. like he's in a shit situation he got himself into but can't change

doesn't really deserve to change. like he wakes up every morning and just hates himself for things he thinks he can't ever make better

and krem learns more about him and his ambitions and personality and who he really is under that flash and swagger and he just starts

to care about him. as a person. as a friend. it doesn't matter. dorian's a good man and krem wants to help him realize it?

krem still doesn't really see that bull is being really like. the reason dorian's so broken down? so he just. is there for him

it all comes to a head when dorian is alone drinking with krem bc everyone else is away on a mission or asleep already and then just

dorian asks "why are you so nice to me" and krem's just like "what. because we're friends, and you're a charger now, which makes you alright

dorian laughs. "am i? a charger? fascinating. bull doesn't seem to think so." krem's just like "what do you mean? chief brought you in"

"yes he did. didn't he. brings me a lot of things. most of them aren't as kind as you and your elf friend are, however"

and krem's just like. suddenly just things are clicking together in his head and he's getting angry and he wants to just like go and find

bull and demand to know what the fuck is going on. but like. this is his friend and clearly dorian needs him to stay here and listen

he's pretty sure he should say something. but he honestly. can't think of what. so he just does the soldiery thing and like reaches out

and grips dorian's forearm all firm and friendly-like and is just like "well you're one of us to me, and i'm here for you"

dorian looks up and he's just like. he's lost weight and he's always drunk these days and he just smiles and goes "you are aren't you"

will

Oh man

mir

"you're always here, after he's gone, after the rest of them are, you don't let me be alone. is that on purpose? why?"

krem's just like "i. dunno really i hadn't thought about it like that. just seems like you aren't the kind of person who ought to be

just left by himself all the time. and if i know the look of a man out on the hunt for new ways to get himself hurt, well, who's saying?"

dorian sort of slumps and krem reaches out to stabilize him and dorian just like sinks forward into his hands and sloppily kisses him

krem lets him for a second mostly in surprise and then gently but firmly steadies him again and dorian's like "oh maker i'm so sorry

i'm an idiot you didn't want that why would you i'm a complete disaster i deserve all of this and now i've gone and messed this up too"

krem's just like "just so we're clear. i pushed you away because you're in no condition to initiate anything like that right now.

not because i'm not interested in the possibility of it being initiated at some point in the future, once you sober up."

dorian's like "what, really? but i thought. you and." "dalish? yes, well, we're not exclusive. think skinner would be left out if we were"

dorian is just. way too drunk to really wrap his head around all of this and is just like. oh. krem's like. alright listen

i'm going to get you back to your tent, tuck you in, just friendly-like, understood, and then i'm going to stand outside until dawn comes.

make sure nobody gets in without my say-so or yours' when you seem able to give it. and as for this all, if you want, we'll talk later."

dorian like tries to protest that he's fine and immediately collapses. krem's just like. rolls his eyes. come on you let's go

as soon as dorian's asleep krem gets skinner up to stand watch at dorian's tent while he goes and finds bull bc he has Things to say

which are what i said above but also basically amounting to "thought you were better than that, hope you're better now"

"and if i do choose to take him off your hands, so to speak, i hope you'll respect that, and him, and me. and make up for it."

bull's just like. does this mean i'm going to lose you to him. krem pauses to consider and is just. "it might. in time. sooner or later.

will

damn. seriously dont forget to save this

mir

i trusted you. the paragon of unlikely goodwill for all people. like family, i thought we were. you broke that. he hasn't.

it'll take a lot of fixing to mend up what you put a big damn tear in messing him up like you have" and bull. understands.

(dont worry it does save a lot of conversation i was looking for something from like four conversations w em ago and i like. i do this a lot

will

Its like heavy but in a good way

Sad but with hope? And a good ending?

Ur good at stories mir

mir

it's not always this heavy this just happens 2 be the one where it's like. here's all my thoughts about how fucked up this is

t it could be okay!!! it could be ok

i mean sometimes what i talk with em about on the big damn twitter chat headcanon train is like. lol dorian/tintalle sex

will

Theres hope in both stories for dorian and like

mir

or the. lol anders walking in on a petra/merrill/fenris threesome lol

will

For these to happen he needs to get into that relationship w bull so

mir

yeah. ideally he doesn't but. it's canon that he does hook up with bull if neither r romanced. so. :T

I mean in my main one he's romanced so he doesnt go so low it doesnt get so hard for him

it ultimately can lead to catharsis that's good but like i would prefer if he had just hooked up with krem from the beginning tbh

yeah. sighs i. to be perfectly honest i wish it were possible to qp romance him w a f!quis bc i like. i mean. ru isn't. but

will

Idk if ill b able to play thru and let that happen? I want to play w my other lavellans n my adaar but

mir

like ru loves josephine a lot but honestly they both understand that. dorian is like. equal. but different

dorian is the dirthamen to ru's falon'din

will

Yeah a qp romance would b gr8

Like in da2 its not such a stretch to say "evry1 is datin every1" and i guess u can retcon canon in favor of headcanon

mir

yeah tru also i'm just. i have those on hand ready to go at any time i'm such gay dalish trash

will

Also i like those codexes n those i think r my fave gods?

mir

i'm also just it's not even just the relationship model it's also the gods in question like hello ru has falon'din's vallaslin

and dirthamen?? keeper of secrets and lore??? what is dorian always on about "we have so much history worth saving"

will

YES

mir

hangs out in a library and digs up ancient research while simultaneously hiding a shit load about himself

will

Thir was sposed to have dirthamen's vallaslin but i forgot

mir

when the keeper protests ru bringing dorian in to the clan ru just. yells in elvhen at him. and the keeper's like. ok.

will

I kind of wanna remake him n play thru again with caranthir

mir

dorian's just like "not that i'm not terribly grateful but what on earth did you just say" and ru's like "remember what i was telling you

will

Sorry my messages dont really match up, my internet's bein weird

mir

about dirthamen and falon'din. i just told him. that's what you are to me." dorian's like "i AM?" ru's like "yes don't make me regret it"

that's fine i'm goin off lmao it's good

i'm also just. i'm soooo about dorian converting to the dalish faith. it really makes sense w how he views faitha lready and i just

esp if u take him to the temple and he sees it all first hand??/ and with the "i don't believe in the chantry but i do believe in you" line

will

It fits w him yeah

mir

all my main ships convert each other 2 dalish faith lmao

estelverse aka everyone's dalish now even the shem