I love thomas but why do some of the characters act like what he did to jimmy wasn’t assault? When bates said “why are you being such a big girl’s blouse about it” why do you think 😭 thomas had been making him uncomfortable for weeks and then he woke up in the middle of the night to him kissing him like ofc you’d freak out and be angry. It’s a normal reaction even without the added layer of attitudes towards gay people in those days. They can never make me hate thomas barrow he’s my favourite but that was all handled so weirdly by the other characters
Similar to mary and kemal. She denied that he forced himself on her when we clearly see him do that in the episode
The writing on this show is always questionable
I have thought about this a lot and I hope you don't mind me lending my two cents on this topic! (Warning for canon-typical trivializing of sexual assault below)
Even thought most of the fandom agrees that what happened between Thomas&Jimmy and Kemal&Mary was nonconsensual, I think Fellowes didn't write them as such and thus, in universe, they do not function as assaults.
In Fellowes's writing, the reason Jimmy is asleep when Thomas kisses him is not to make the kiss an assault, but to simply keep Jimmy still long enough for Alfred to walk in and think the kiss was mutual. In universe Jimmy's reaction is not meant to be that of an assault victim, it's him going "ew, gay people. and ew, people will think i'm gay people. ew". I think that's also what was meant to come across when Thomas was flirting with Jimmy and Jimmy only seemed visibly uncomfortable when other people were watching. It's Fellowes trying to show that Jimmy is uncomfortable with a gay guy liking him and other people believing he is gay. And for some reason he wasn't creative enough to think of another way to show the same dynamic. So sleep kiss it is. Uggghhhh.
I think that's why the other characters react the way they react – in universe, Thomas's mistake was making a pass at a straight guy, not kissing a guy while he was asleep. It's meant to be the same as boys trying to kiss Robert in Eton, just a gay guy making a pass at a straight guy. So when Bates says Jimmy is being "a big girl's blouse about it", it's him saying a gay guy liking Jimmy is not a big deal, not that being assaulted isn't a big deal.
And similarly with Mary and Pamuk, I'm convinced Fellowes didn't mean it to be rape. I actually think he meant it to be hot. The reason Mary is protesting is, in universe, not that the character Mary doesn't want to have sex with Kemal. It's because she's a Lady and a Lady is not supposed to want to have sex with Kemal. Basically, Fellowes thinks he's rewriting Baby, It's Cold Outside, when actually he's writing a scene that reads very clearly as an assault to anyone who's ever been assaulted or harrassed.
Mary protesting is her establishing that she knows she should refuse Kemal, putting up a barrier, and Kemal tearing down that barrier is supposed to read as a seduction. It's that scene where James Bond is wrestling with Pussy Galore until she surrenders and kisses him back. That scene is meant to show that James Bond is sooo sexy his charm can overpower your initial unwillingness. In the same way Kemal is supposed to be soooo sexy he can overpower the sense of propriety that's been ingrained in you as an upper class woman.
That's why Mary doesn't later describe her encounter with Kemal as coerced, because in universe it wasn't and she wanted it. In universe it was fully consensual, hence her saying "it was lust, Matthew" instead of defending herself by saying "I didn't want it, Matthew".
I'm not sure if there actually are serious in universe assaults besides what happens to Anna? Even what Jimmy does to Ivy does seem like it's simply meant to show that Jimmy is not a gentleman and Ivy should realize that Alfred is much better because Alfred would never do something like this. Argh. So the only time assault is treated as an assault is when it's violent, unambiguous and done by an Evil Very Bad Man. Great, Fellowes! Thanks!
So. Yeah. I think that was just my elongated way of saying that Fellowes is terrible at romance writing, he read somewhere that what makes romance interesting is a barrier that keeps the lovers apart, and he couldn't think of another barrier than "the woman literally does not want this man". Bleh. I don't remember who, but someone made a great post that said that someone took Fellowes aside between the movies and taught him what consent is.
Sorry I went on a tangent, but this is the only explanation that makes sense to me!
That post was miiiiiine <33! “Can I kiss you?” “No.” “Alright.” Impossible exchange during the run of the show itself but there it is in movie 2.
The FASCINATING thing to me about Mary and Pamuk is that, throughout the rest of season 1, it still reads to me as Mary reacting to assault. She denies that Pamuk forced her but in a way that makes me think that she’s thinking “well I didn’t fight back physically (after he threatened that me screaming would just ruin my reputation), so no”. Even though I fully believe Fellowes intended it to be seduction from the beginning, he still wrote the rest of the season in a way compatible with the understanding that it’s assault.
I am placing my little coins here too. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe Rob James Collier referred to the sleep kiss in an interview as assault, so there's that, assuming I am remembering correctly.
The whole debacle is such a giant missed opportunity. Thanks Fellowes.
That adds up! Rob brought Thomas to life while Fellowes doesn’t know a pen from a carrot. He’s detached from the real world as a toff and the writing in Downton suffers because of it. I saw a post a while ago where his niece and some other toff rip Thomas apart in a character analysis clearly not understanding him, especially not like Rob does. The reason people love Thomas so much is because Rob carries the weight of it on his back. He knows the character and Fellowes doesn’t. #1 Fellowes hater me
