Piotr Ĺukasz - Mglisty poranek w GdanĚsku (fotografia), 2022
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Piotr Ĺukasz - Mglisty poranek w GdanĚsku (fotografia), 2022

Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
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To finally solve all problems caused by humans, God made six new earths, to separate everyone depending on their sins, Earth 1 being for the best people and Earth 7 for the worst sinners. Every 50 years, angels arrive and re-judge people to decide if they should stay, go up or down.
7 segregated worlds? interesting, kinda sounds like an anime plot
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Top: in Hotel Mario, a cutscene after completing the first hotel shows Roy Koopa grabbing Peach and escaping by running up a vertical wall. While this may seem like simply a cartoonish action, this actually references a real ability Roy has been shown to possess.
Bottom: in his battle in Super Mario World, Roy runs up the walls of his arena in the same manner.Â
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it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
yes it is sexist to say women have the same psychological experience because sex does not determine or predict brain function, thatâs nonsensical pseudoscience. you canât tell the difference between a female brain or a male brain by looking at yourself, even if there were such a thing.
thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology. again, women are female people, anything you say about women in general that has nothing to do with being female is a stereotype.
womb implants*, because you canât transplant an organ you donât already have, wonât make males any less male. itâs not their uterus, theyâll be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives trying to obscure that fact from their body. what good would a borrowed uterus do for a male, anyway? if women arenât a biological class and itâs more about presentation, why have an organ implanted in you that you will never use and will objectively worsen your quality of life? even if there were doctors so unethical and depraved theyâd implant random organs into male bodies, males couldnât get pregnant or carry a child. iâve seen that tweet going around saying womb implants for males can happen, yet they fail to explain how. how will they be able to induce the positive feedback loop in pregnancy that releases oxytocin that causes the fetusâs head to move toward the cervix, when the uterus has no nerve endings to connect to? at least in women born without uteri, their bodies are still female and will still respond to pregnancyâ males cannot, and will not.
women are human females. we are born female. no amount of implants reconstruction or exogenous drugs will turn someone femaleâ just a piss poor imitation, a rachel dolezal, if you will.
the first two sentences, i do not even know where to begin with that. i am genuinely not sure how you extrapolated that nonsense. that's barely even close to what i said.
oh, oh, thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology? Yaaaaaayyy, you finally got my point!!!!! except no you didnt because you immediately threw it out and learned nothing.
as for the uterus plants, to be honest i didn't even expect that to be most of your reply, i just threw that in as an aside. i dont even really care that much about the science of human organs, so ill just say i think they'll figure it out and call it a day there. humans are very persistent (as you have demonstrated).
i suspected from the beginning you would not be open to changing your mind on this issue. which is fine, as neither am I. but I find it a bit pathetic that after all we've been through together, you've never moved past your main tactic of repeating your same few talking points, twisting my words into things i never said, and calling my attributed beliefs sexist and racist. I like to think I've actually learned a lot about why I think the way I do and how my opposition thinks. i wonder if you can say the same.
anyway, you have officially bored the shit out of me. if you have nothing new to say, i will take it as your own conclusion.
you a white woman asked why males identifying as women is comparable to blackface. i, a black woman, explained to you the similarities. however, since youâre a bootlicking hog whose prioritĂŠs lie with any male over marginalized women, continued to whitesplain how theyâre not the same because you know nothing of the black experience. like, larping as a class you oppress will always be bigotry. cope. seethe. that was the argument here.
everything else i said was true, thereâs nothing all women experience that isnât related to being female, thereâs nothing a male could experience that could make him a woman. period.
i have a wiener dude
thats right. after everything you said about how males can't be women, after everything you said about how imitating women is just a cruel form of misogyny, after spending days arguing with a complete stranger on the internet, you mistook me for a woman without me even trying, based on nothing but a profile picture of a fictional character.
i said i was nonbinary. you could've taken the hint and just said person, or even "man or woman", and you couldn't.
this is the funniest ending i could've never imagined. at least you unbored me. Truly, this is what it means to go out with a bang.
Folks, I have officially won.
that doesnât make you a woman dumbass, for all you know i could be white behind a screen too đ but you being a white male makes this whole thing even worse, imagine thinking you know more about sexism AND racism than an actual black woman. worthless fucking swine
lol. lmao. if you had been pretending to be black this whole time, that would've been way worse than anything i ever did. but i was honest about who i was, because i dont feel the need for fake credibility.
anyway. i love being mistaken for a woman. cope <3 seethe <3
nah, itâd be the same, thatâs what youâre not getting you worthless male.
being mistaken is as bad as lying? terf brain, why so terminal?
youâre still going? youâre a white male so statistically you should have killed yourself by now. pretending to be a woman is as bad as blackface, misogyny is as bad as racism, but white subhuman swine like yourself could never understand that. why donât you grab a noose and cosplay as an ornament, itâd be far more appealing than whatever disgusting woman outfit youâre wearing âĄ!
deciding i was a woman was your mistake, not mine. i'd still like to know how else you came to that conclusion.
as for your other thought process, ive seen your other posts so i guess this was an inevitability. anyone who wishes as much death as you do to other people is not someone coming from any high point themselves, nor someone whose opinion of me i will ever take seriously. i'll tell you to get help, but that's because i care more about the people you come into contact with than you yourself. i personally could not care less about whatever you might be going through. you chose this. sorry for being a 59%er
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
yes it is sexist to say women have the same psychological experience because sex does not determine or predict brain function, thatâs nonsensical pseudoscience. you canât tell the difference between a female brain or a male brain by looking at yourself, even if there were such a thing.
thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology. again, women are female people, anything you say about women in general that has nothing to do with being female is a stereotype.
womb implants*, because you canât transplant an organ you donât already have, wonât make males any less male. itâs not their uterus, theyâll be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives trying to obscure that fact from their body. what good would a borrowed uterus do for a male, anyway? if women arenât a biological class and itâs more about presentation, why have an organ implanted in you that you will never use and will objectively worsen your quality of life? even if there were doctors so unethical and depraved theyâd implant random organs into male bodies, males couldnât get pregnant or carry a child. iâve seen that tweet going around saying womb implants for males can happen, yet they fail to explain how. how will they be able to induce the positive feedback loop in pregnancy that releases oxytocin that causes the fetusâs head to move toward the cervix, when the uterus has no nerve endings to connect to? at least in women born without uteri, their bodies are still female and will still respond to pregnancyâ males cannot, and will not.
women are human females. we are born female. no amount of implants reconstruction or exogenous drugs will turn someone femaleâ just a piss poor imitation, a rachel dolezal, if you will.
the first two sentences, i do not even know where to begin with that. i am genuinely not sure how you extrapolated that nonsense. that's barely even close to what i said.
oh, oh, thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology? Yaaaaaayyy, you finally got my point!!!!! except no you didnt because you immediately threw it out and learned nothing.
as for the uterus plants, to be honest i didn't even expect that to be most of your reply, i just threw that in as an aside. i dont even really care that much about the science of human organs, so ill just say i think they'll figure it out and call it a day there. humans are very persistent (as you have demonstrated).
i suspected from the beginning you would not be open to changing your mind on this issue. which is fine, as neither am I. but I find it a bit pathetic that after all we've been through together, you've never moved past your main tactic of repeating your same few talking points, twisting my words into things i never said, and calling my attributed beliefs sexist and racist. I like to think I've actually learned a lot about why I think the way I do and how my opposition thinks. i wonder if you can say the same.
anyway, you have officially bored the shit out of me. if you have nothing new to say, i will take it as your own conclusion.
you a white woman asked why males identifying as women is comparable to blackface. i, a black woman, explained to you the similarities. however, since youâre a bootlicking hog whose prioritĂŠs lie with any male over marginalized women, continued to whitesplain how theyâre not the same because you know nothing of the black experience. like, larping as a class you oppress will always be bigotry. cope. seethe. that was the argument here.
everything else i said was true, thereâs nothing all women experience that isnât related to being female, thereâs nothing a male could experience that could make him a woman. period.
i have a wiener dude
thats right. after everything you said about how males can't be women, after everything you said about how imitating women is just a cruel form of misogyny, after spending days arguing with a complete stranger on the internet, you mistook me for a woman without me even trying, based on nothing but a profile picture of a fictional character.
i said i was nonbinary. you could've taken the hint and just said person, or even "man or woman", and you couldn't.
this is the funniest ending i could've never imagined. at least you unbored me. Truly, this is what it means to go out with a bang.
Folks, I have officially won.
that doesnât make you a woman dumbass, for all you know i could be white behind a screen too đ but you being a white male makes this whole thing even worse, imagine thinking you know more about sexism AND racism than an actual black woman. worthless fucking swine
lol. lmao. if you had been pretending to be black this whole time, that would've been way worse than anything i ever did. but i was honest about who i was, because i dont feel the need for fake credibility.
anyway. i love being mistaken for a woman. cope <3 seethe <3
nah, itâd be the same, thatâs what youâre not getting you worthless male.
being mistaken is as bad as lying? terf brain, why so terminal?
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
yes it is sexist to say women have the same psychological experience because sex does not determine or predict brain function, thatâs nonsensical pseudoscience. you canât tell the difference between a female brain or a male brain by looking at yourself, even if there were such a thing.
thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology. again, women are female people, anything you say about women in general that has nothing to do with being female is a stereotype.
womb implants*, because you canât transplant an organ you donât already have, wonât make males any less male. itâs not their uterus, theyâll be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives trying to obscure that fact from their body. what good would a borrowed uterus do for a male, anyway? if women arenât a biological class and itâs more about presentation, why have an organ implanted in you that you will never use and will objectively worsen your quality of life? even if there were doctors so unethical and depraved theyâd implant random organs into male bodies, males couldnât get pregnant or carry a child. iâve seen that tweet going around saying womb implants for males can happen, yet they fail to explain how. how will they be able to induce the positive feedback loop in pregnancy that releases oxytocin that causes the fetusâs head to move toward the cervix, when the uterus has no nerve endings to connect to? at least in women born without uteri, their bodies are still female and will still respond to pregnancyâ males cannot, and will not.
women are human females. we are born female. no amount of implants reconstruction or exogenous drugs will turn someone femaleâ just a piss poor imitation, a rachel dolezal, if you will.
the first two sentences, i do not even know where to begin with that. i am genuinely not sure how you extrapolated that nonsense. that's barely even close to what i said.
oh, oh, thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology? Yaaaaaayyy, you finally got my point!!!!! except no you didnt because you immediately threw it out and learned nothing.
as for the uterus plants, to be honest i didn't even expect that to be most of your reply, i just threw that in as an aside. i dont even really care that much about the science of human organs, so ill just say i think they'll figure it out and call it a day there. humans are very persistent (as you have demonstrated).
i suspected from the beginning you would not be open to changing your mind on this issue. which is fine, as neither am I. but I find it a bit pathetic that after all we've been through together, you've never moved past your main tactic of repeating your same few talking points, twisting my words into things i never said, and calling my attributed beliefs sexist and racist. I like to think I've actually learned a lot about why I think the way I do and how my opposition thinks. i wonder if you can say the same.
anyway, you have officially bored the shit out of me. if you have nothing new to say, i will take it as your own conclusion.
you a white woman asked why males identifying as women is comparable to blackface. i, a black woman, explained to you the similarities. however, since youâre a bootlicking hog whose prioritĂŠs lie with any male over marginalized women, continued to whitesplain how theyâre not the same because you know nothing of the black experience. like, larping as a class you oppress will always be bigotry. cope. seethe. that was the argument here.
everything else i said was true, thereâs nothing all women experience that isnât related to being female, thereâs nothing a male could experience that could make him a woman. period.
i have a wiener dude
thats right. after everything you said about how males can't be women, after everything you said about how imitating women is just a cruel form of misogyny, after spending days arguing with a complete stranger on the internet, you mistook me for a woman without me even trying, based on nothing but a profile picture of a fictional character.
i said i was nonbinary. you could've taken the hint and just said person, or even "man or woman", and you couldn't.
this is the funniest ending i could've never imagined. at least you unbored me. Truly, this is what it means to go out with a bang.
Folks, I have officially won.
that doesnât make you a woman dumbass, for all you know i could be white behind a screen too đ but you being a white male makes this whole thing even worse, imagine thinking you know more about sexism AND racism than an actual black woman. worthless fucking swine
lol. lmao. if you had been pretending to be black this whole time, that would've been way worse than anything i ever did. but i was honest about who i was, because i dont feel the need for fake credibility.
anyway. i love being mistaken for a woman. cope <3 seethe <3
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
yes it is sexist to say women have the same psychological experience because sex does not determine or predict brain function, thatâs nonsensical pseudoscience. you canât tell the difference between a female brain or a male brain by looking at yourself, even if there were such a thing.
thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology. again, women are female people, anything you say about women in general that has nothing to do with being female is a stereotype.
womb implants*, because you canât transplant an organ you donât already have, wonât make males any less male. itâs not their uterus, theyâll be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives trying to obscure that fact from their body. what good would a borrowed uterus do for a male, anyway? if women arenât a biological class and itâs more about presentation, why have an organ implanted in you that you will never use and will objectively worsen your quality of life? even if there were doctors so unethical and depraved theyâd implant random organs into male bodies, males couldnât get pregnant or carry a child. iâve seen that tweet going around saying womb implants for males can happen, yet they fail to explain how. how will they be able to induce the positive feedback loop in pregnancy that releases oxytocin that causes the fetusâs head to move toward the cervix, when the uterus has no nerve endings to connect to? at least in women born without uteri, their bodies are still female and will still respond to pregnancyâ males cannot, and will not.
women are human females. we are born female. no amount of implants reconstruction or exogenous drugs will turn someone femaleâ just a piss poor imitation, a rachel dolezal, if you will.
the first two sentences, i do not even know where to begin with that. i am genuinely not sure how you extrapolated that nonsense. that's barely even close to what i said.
oh, oh, thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology? Yaaaaaayyy, you finally got my point!!!!! except no you didnt because you immediately threw it out and learned nothing.
as for the uterus plants, to be honest i didn't even expect that to be most of your reply, i just threw that in as an aside. i dont even really care that much about the science of human organs, so ill just say i think they'll figure it out and call it a day there. humans are very persistent (as you have demonstrated).
i suspected from the beginning you would not be open to changing your mind on this issue. which is fine, as neither am I. but I find it a bit pathetic that after all we've been through together, you've never moved past your main tactic of repeating your same few talking points, twisting my words into things i never said, and calling my attributed beliefs sexist and racist. I like to think I've actually learned a lot about why I think the way I do and how my opposition thinks. i wonder if you can say the same.
anyway, you have officially bored the shit out of me. if you have nothing new to say, i will take it as your own conclusion.
you a white woman asked why males identifying as women is comparable to blackface. i, a black woman, explained to you the similarities. however, since youâre a bootlicking hog whose prioritĂŠs lie with any male over marginalized women, continued to whitesplain how theyâre not the same because you know nothing of the black experience. like, larping as a class you oppress will always be bigotry. cope. seethe. that was the argument here.
everything else i said was true, thereâs nothing all women experience that isnât related to being female, thereâs nothing a male could experience that could make him a woman. period.
i have a wiener dude
thats right. after everything you said about how males can't be women, after everything you said about how imitating women is just a cruel form of misogyny, after spending days arguing with a complete stranger on the internet, you mistook me for a woman without me even trying, based on nothing but a profile picture of a fictional character.
i said i was nonbinary. you could've taken the hint and just said person, or even "man or woman", and you couldn't.
this is the funniest ending i could've never imagined. at least you unbored me. Truly, this is what it means to go out with a bang.
Folks, I have officially won.

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TRAs are so insanely hostile once confronted with literally their own beliefs lol. i assume itâs because theyâve never thought about their own ideology for more than a second and are realizing they donât actually know enough to support it. this conversation is the result of me simply asking what a woman isđ
hi, op here. you commented first on my post before @freekazoider jumped in, so you were pretty clearly trying to "interrogate" me. it's pretty weird how TERFs like claiming false victimhood when they think no one will notice. nice crop though. now stop soiling the sacred name of gems.
edit: and im blocked. weirdchamp
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
yes it is sexist to say women have the same psychological experience because sex does not determine or predict brain function, thatâs nonsensical pseudoscience. you canât tell the difference between a female brain or a male brain by looking at yourself, even if there were such a thing.
thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology. again, women are female people, anything you say about women in general that has nothing to do with being female is a stereotype.
womb implants*, because you canât transplant an organ you donât already have, wonât make males any less male. itâs not their uterus, theyâll be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives trying to obscure that fact from their body. what good would a borrowed uterus do for a male, anyway? if women arenât a biological class and itâs more about presentation, why have an organ implanted in you that you will never use and will objectively worsen your quality of life? even if there were doctors so unethical and depraved theyâd implant random organs into male bodies, males couldnât get pregnant or carry a child. iâve seen that tweet going around saying womb implants for males can happen, yet they fail to explain how. how will they be able to induce the positive feedback loop in pregnancy that releases oxytocin that causes the fetusâs head to move toward the cervix, when the uterus has no nerve endings to connect to? at least in women born without uteri, their bodies are still female and will still respond to pregnancyâ males cannot, and will not.
women are human females. we are born female. no amount of implants reconstruction or exogenous drugs will turn someone femaleâ just a piss poor imitation, a rachel dolezal, if you will.
the first two sentences, i do not even know where to begin with that. i am genuinely not sure how you extrapolated that nonsense. that's barely even close to what i said.
oh, oh, thereâs nothing that every woman does or has or is that isnât based in biology? Yaaaaaayyy, you finally got my point!!!!! except no you didnt because you immediately threw it out and learned nothing.
as for the uterus plants, to be honest i didn't even expect that to be most of your reply, i just threw that in as an aside. i dont even really care that much about the science of human organs, so ill just say i think they'll figure it out and call it a day there. humans are very persistent (as you have demonstrated).
i suspected from the beginning you would not be open to changing your mind on this issue. which is fine, as neither am I. but I find it a bit pathetic that after all we've been through together, you've never moved past your main tactic of repeating your same few talking points, twisting my words into things i never said, and calling my attributed beliefs sexist and racist. I like to think I've actually learned a lot about why I think the way I do and how my opposition thinks. i wonder if you can say the same.
anyway, you have officially bored the shit out of me. if you have nothing new to say, i will take it as your own conclusion.
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
how does one live as a female? explain this in a non misogynistic way
the google definition is âadult human female.â the conventional usage has been to refer to human females, like womenâs health. itâs meant human female for over 600 years. i can guarantee you they were not asking actual women before making that definition lmao, because itâs completely useless. what qualifies as living as a female? what does living female entail? why is that relevant?
i dont identify as a female anymore than i identify as a human being. itâs not a fucking identity, itâs a biological category.
can your white ass stop speaking over an actual black person lmao. black people definitely get ostracized for acting white.
even if that were true, how does that make woman and man identities� what does that have to do with anything.
to my knowledge, black people can be ostracized by other black people for acting white, and it is the overarching white society that ostracizes them when they don't act white. if they speak in black vernacular, for example, white people write them off as poor and uneducated. black women can get pressured to straighten their hair for the workplace because white people consider it unprofessional, when it's just their natural hair. how about giving their kids a white name so they can get taken more seriously?
i would care to explain what it means to live as a woman, but i think at this point it's become painfully obvious that anything i say that isnt biology is already sexist in your mind. i could say that womanhood is when a combination of biological and psychological factors in your brain make you see yourself as one after you're old enough to tell the difference. it won't matter, though, because gender identity isn't real to you.
what's one non-biology-related thing only a woman does that isn't a misogynistic stereotype? because there will be trans women who do it too. at this point womb transplants are coming whether you like it or not. what difference does it make.
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.
since when have woman and man be genders? their definitions literally only mention sex. gender identity is⌠not real. there are very few people on this planet that actually believe in that. iâm not sure why youâre so obsessed with trying to explain the nuances of a religion i donât subscribe to.
women are human females. humans of the female sex. the 50% of the human population with a female reproductive system. i donât know how else to explain this basic fact to you. if a male says heâs partaking in womanhood, heâs forcibly stereotyping or associating every female person alive with his nonsensical ideas of what womanhood is. that is sexism. that is misogyny.
every demographic is expected to act different from each other you worthless white pig. do you know how often i was told i âact whiteâ or âtalk whiteâ because i donât speak in ebonics? of course, youâre so used to whiteness being the absolute standard you canât comprehend that other races, in fact, have stereotypes for our behavior. youâre so aggressively white and ignorant itâs making me nauseous.
confirming to a groupâs stereotypes does not make you part of that group. period. whatâs not clicking for you becky? males cannot be women by adhering to our gender roles any more than youâre dirty cracker ass could be black by adhering to racial stereotypes. sex is immutable. race is immutable. there is no social category of woman, itâs a biological one that has social expectations attached. these are irrelevant to actual femaleness. please explain where iâve lost you.
i'm not sure why you're so obsessed with the same few talking points. why does it take this long to get some new material?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of woman: "an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth"
since "expected" might be a bit easy to twist vague, allow me to clarify. by "expected to act" I mean "punished or looked down on by the overarching society for not being like". gay people are punished for not acting straight enough, autistic people are punished for not acting neurotypical enough, and black people are punished for not acting white enough. only men and women are punished for acting too much like each other.
and finally, for the fourth time now, behavior does not make the man or woman. what's not clicking about that?
if you will never subscribe to my "religion", that is fine; you're entitled to your beliefs. but if you are truly not open to changing your beliefs i have to ask: why are you still on my page?
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
i also take issue with the erasure of womanhood; even if we get to true social equality, itâs still sexist for males to call themselves women because that means they associate some behavior or appearance with womanhood. women are simply female people. there is no non sexist way for males to identify as women without adding some sort of connotations.
womanhood is not a fucking behavior pattern, dumbass. âacting like a womanâ is sexist. would it be okay to say someone âacts like a black personâ or âacts like an autistic person?â stop fucking equating womanhood to womenâs stereotypes. woman is a sex class, period. full stop. you canât act like a woman, you can fulfill the societal expectations of womanhood, but that does not make you a woman.
you acknowledge gender roles are just stereotypes and expectations based around reproductive role, so iâm not sure what youâre missing here. saying you belong to a certain demographic because you conform to their stereotypes is bigoted. period.
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. and there it is, "erasure of womanhood". alright, i could've said this before and didn't, but now its clear you care too much about biology to leave me any other choice. notice I have said "gender" for the most part; unlike you I have said sex only once. that's because, you're not gonna like this, but they are distinct. Male and Female are sexes, Man and Woman are gender. Though people on my side like to say AMAB/AFAB (assigned m/f at birth). when I say woman, I actually mean someone who is socially identified as one, but where you say woman (biological), I mean Female/AFAB. yes, there is a lot of overlap here, and yes, someone of the male sex can be the female gender. A male can practice womanhood without regard to biology. There is no contradiction as far as I am concerned. if you care about sex classes, then surely female is just a rose by any other name, right?
also, even putting all that aside, you keep getting hung up on this idea that I think a race/gender/sex/neurotype is a "behavior pattern". i think behavior is related to societal expectation and perception, not some kind of ontological class of human. there's stereotypes, then there's observed generalities. group X is more likely to do this behavior than other groups. this is a statement of fact, not a statement of degradation; partially because behavior is highly malleable. as i have stated before and will state once again, behavior does not make the man or woman. i don't think it does, and yet you still pretend i do.
almost like you have no other argument there.
also: the red/blue analogy can only apply to men and women because as i have stated before, only they are expected to act different from each other.

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it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?
there is zero difference between a male identifying as a woman and a white person identifying as black. period. in both cases the oppressor class is forcing their way into the oppressed class. whatâs not clicking?
thereâs no such thing in acting woman like, because woman is a sex and not a personality or performance. acting feminine â acting woman like.
if your issue with trans people is "forcing their way into the oppressed class", the only thing i can take from this is that, if we achieve True Social Equality, having trans people would be uncomplicated and unproblematic. which I would agree with too; my disagreement then would be whether that means we should be barring them right now.
the difference i see between race and sex would be this: not every society has "racial roles" but every society does have gender roles. we except men and women to act a certain way, and it tends to be shaped around reproductive roles (i work, you raise). there is no equivalent to this for people of different races, because they're just other people.
in a vacuum there may not be strictly such a thing as acting like you're the color blue, but if blue people are expected to act different from red people, and a red person fulfulls bluelike expectations, we're going to say they act bluely. this semantics argument is irrelevant.
it might be a bit white of me that I only just now noticed this, but the way white TERFs keep comparing trans women to blackface is soooo fuckin cringe dude. how could they as white women possibly know what could reasonably be compared to blackface? if I called everything that I considered to be mocking me a form of blackface, people would probably be calling me racist! and they'd be right. but their spaces are all seemingly fine with it. maybe the black terfs are all just giving the white terfs the pass on this one, but I can't say ive observed this to be the case. it seems more like no one ever questions it. it seems like they're just very comfortable using this term "womanface" without even thinking about it. kinda weirdchamp
as a black woman males putting on make up and calling themselves women is very much equally offensive as whites putting on black make up and calling themselves blackâ arguably more so, because theyâre not even mimicking traits of women, just a misogynistic caricature of us. youâre white, stay the fuck out of black business please !
You're black and I'm white so, fair is fair. You're entitled to your analogy.
but if I may ask: then in what way are trans women caricatures of women? I'm nonbinary, am i committing some kind of "face"?
femininity â womanhood. women are not innately feminine, weâre simply female humans that happen to be subjected to standards of femininity. males, then, obviously are not and cannot be or become women, so their implication that being drawn to and/or performing femininity makes them women or validates theyâre womanhood is insanely misogynistic. a good comparison would be if a white person got locs and listened to rap, and started calling themselves black.
I don't think that follows. Can a teenage boy not feel like a man when he learns to chop wood? If men were the oppressed gender, would it be misandrist for a trans man to be validated this way? I don't see how it could be. it doesn't "make" the man, it merely makes him feel more confident in being one. he could still be a man without doing anything socially considered masculine. the same way a woman could act masculine and be feminine. neither of these people would be caricatures of their gender regardless of how masculine or feminine they are, why should it suddenly matter if they were trans?
yes, if males were oppressed for being males it would be misandrist for women to adopt masculine traits and say that makes them male. again, comparing it to race: as a black woman, i do feel more in touch with my ancestry and heritage when i wear braids or other traditional black styles, even though these arenât innate to being black nor do all black people do them. if someone who wasnât black did this and decided that made them black, theyâre implying hairstyles are what makes someone black, which is both stereotyping and invalidating for black people who donât wear traditional styles.
if youâre not a woman, you canât feel confident in your womanhood. if youâre not black, you canât feel confident in your blackness. to say engaging in stereotypical behavior of a certain sex or race that you are not makes you feel validated in it, youâre effectively saying that is what makes a woman, or a black person.
it matters that theyâre trans because woman and man are sex terms, not behavior categories or styles. anyone can be feminine, but for a male to say that is what makes him a woman or makes him feel like more of a woman is blatant sexism. even if a woman said her womanhood is validated by being feminine, itâs clear she has internalized misogyny, but if a male does it itâs⌠well⌠externalized misogyny
if i had dreadlocks and listened to rap music, you're right. no matter how valid I felt, I wouldn't be black, and to say it effectively makes me black would be incorrect. great... except i have still never stated that behavior makes the man or woman. That is only you. I think we actually agree that if they are socially perceived the way the want to be perceived by their behavior, and feel valid, it in no way affects who they are. it just feels good to them. that's not where either of us believe gender comes from, so why pretend it is?
this is where i start to draw my personal objections to the race analogy. they are both axis of oppression, but there are differences between race and gender. socially for example, if you're a woman, you're expected to conform to womanly expectations, but if you're black, you're expected to conform to white expectations. then there's the fact that not many trans people (especially not black trans people) actually support trans-racialism to begin with, because they acknowledge this difference. i have never seen this as a point of discussion except from transphobes as a mocking joke because of that lady from 2014.
also, the take at the end is very interesting to me, and even seems to come out of left field. it matters if someone is trans because it's either internalized or externalized misogyny: because a woman can't feel valid about her womanhood by being feminine? its ultimately wrong to take pride in acting feminine and womanlike no matter who does it? doesn't that sound so...
misogynist?