FrogHeadHell

It makes me really happy to see that canonically the whole one sided thing isn't the case at all! And it's thanks to some of your posts that I know!

(Also the biggest insult is people calling Jonathan the straightest Jojo, this man is incredibly bi/pan af and they're just blind)

I'm honestly so happy to hear (read?) that I was able to contribute and change your views on the ship!! I'm a forgetful scatterbrain all the time, hence why there aren't as many posts about jonawagon as there should be from me, but I'm glad those that I've made have helped in shedding some light on the real depth and extent of their relationship! As a warning: This post is gonna be long and is gonna have some salt scattered here and there so, yeah. Y'all have been warned >:3

That whole false narrative that jonawagon "is and can only be one-sided" is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way since I got into the Jojo fandom years ago tbh because, the way people put it in those instances only shows that they aren't truly reading/watching Phantom Blood (and even Battle Tendency and the jonawagon bits it too offered!), or that they're just not paying attention to the many details in the story and just run along with the old and tired memes that many people love to parrot, with said memes being mostly based on those wrong assumptions people have made about the jojo parts and the characters, and which is why you often see lukewarm and false takes on PB/its characters, like Jonathan and Speedwagon being “pure, innocent, soft blushy bois”, or when people try to erase Speedwagon’s blatant homosexuality, or forcing the “himbo” label on either of them, the whole “Dio is not evil, he’s just misunderstood” takes, Erina being lumped in the “saint” category, too, Will Zepp being seen/used as a mere plot device and etcetcetc.

And, to be fair, this is an issue I often see with all Jojo parts, with the fanbase often reducing characters to Just One Trait, usually exaggerating it beyond recognition and taking is as canon, even in those cases where said trait isn't even part of the character's canon (like those mentioned before, or the "milf hunter Kak" one, "dolphin lover/Jolyne hater Jotaro", and etc etc etc). Like… I kinda get some of that being passed around as an unfunny joke, I guess?? But it soon becomes a serious issue when people start taking those ideas as truth, ditching the actual canon in favor of a fanon take and then claiming that fantake as canon. And it's worse when it comes to smaller and less popular parts like PB and BT, since there's already not enough people talking about them or giving them love, and from those who do, there's usually a bunch of people misinterpreting the whole thing, causing others to do the same, repeating the same misunderstandings, and it's literally a vicious circle. Even more troublesome considering the many existing differences between PB's manga and the anime, and the fact that most people will only watch the anime (which considerably did most characters dirty -Jonathan included- by snatching or even changing scenes that showed the characters' personalities and relationships in more depth and detail, making things appear plain "at best"). Heck, I mean, there's still people who think the main events in PB took place in the span of just a few days, that Jonathan and Spw only knew each other for mere weeks, when in reality the main part of PB takes place in the span of at least 5 to 6 months from the moment Dio starts poisoning George and until the very end of PB, meaning that Jonathan and Speedwagon knew each other and hung around together for at least 5-ish months, more than most Jojos and their "Jobros" did in their parts, for example. ((Update!: PB timeline is done and can be found here!))

And it was kinda the same when it came to Jonawagon and the takes some people have on the ship, starting with the old and false view that "it can only be one-sided", or when some people are bold enough to state that "Jonathan never cared about Speedwagon" without taking into account that not only Speedwagon stands out as a support character for not being the "damsel in distress who needs to be saved every 5 seconds" and that he is also efficient enough to handle himself most of the time despite his lack of hamon or other supernatural abilities and thus doesn't need to be saved in every episode/chapter, but that, also, in those instances where he does happen to need some help, it is usually Jonathan who rushes to his side to help/protect him despite Jonathan being the one carrying the biggest burden of the group. Because, yes! people often forget that Jonathan was dealing with a lot at the time, including being forced to kill, but even then he still made the time and had the head space to be there for Speedwagon, just like Spw was there for him always. And, really, just to name a few of those instances:

There's the different instances during the fire at the mansion like how the first time Jonathan actually kills he does it without hesitation to save Speedwagon, how he later embraced Speedwagon and took him to safety -putting himself in danger in the process- before the fire actually started, or how Jona then forces Spw away from him and from the flames and literally puts his own life on the line by baiting and luring Dio's attention away from Spw so he can escape safely (an action that we only see Jonathan do once more later on with Erina on the boat, near the end of PB), the fight against Jack The Ripper when Spw gets injured by one of JTR's knives and how Jonathan is the first to react, being shown as shocked and worried and rushing to him on the spot, and the fact that it was implied it was Jonathan who healed him, since Zeppeli and Spw were still hostile towards each other by this point (another thing people miss in PB is the hostility and legit shit talking there was between Zepp and Spw in pretty much all their interactions, too), and this is also applied to later instances where Spw could have been potentially injured while fighting zombies, being Jonathan the one who most likely used his hamon techniques to heal him. Same when Zeppeli "accidentally missed" the hamon activation spot and simply punched Spw in the guts, the anime doesn't fully show it but in the manga Jonathan is shown to have immediately rushed to Spw's side while Robert was on the ground before Poco showed up. Heck, even stuff like them being Extra while handing over the Luck & Pluck sword when they reach Dio's chamber shows the mutual communication that exists between Jona and Spw and that they are in full sync despite the emotional distress their group is suffering with due to Zepp's death and the shock from Dire's brutal passing too. Same with the sole fact that Jonathan not only trusted Spw with their money (the one they were carrying in the bag that Poco tried to steal), but also with such a higly valuable and irreplaceable object like the Luck & Pluck sword. And this too traces back to when they meet for the first time, as they started bonding ever since that 3-day-long ride they spent together from London to Liverpool (the fact that Speedwagon knew everything by the time they reached the Joestar estate suggests that there was a mutual trust and caring between them already by then, as a good deal of all that was shown to have been quite sensitive information).

Same when you take the time to notice the subtleties and subtext in the way Jonathan addresses Spw. Some of these kinda get lost in the translations, so it's understandable they might fly over people's heads if they don't speak Japanese or don't know about the etiquette applicable to both Japanese and (Victorian) English, but I'm gonna try to cover some of that here, since I've never seen it being actually discussed.

People often assume that Jonathan and Speedwagon were 1000% Proper And Gentlemanly All The Freaking Time towards each other without realizing that both use varying degrees of informal speech. Jonathan does it occasionally, Speedwagon does it A LOT. And you can even infer that from the fact that Jonathan has always struggled with manners and to overall fit in with what "a proper gentleman" in his time should be like. In Speedwagon's case, it can be inferred from the fact that he's basically a gang leader from the lowest and darkest parts of the slums and him just… never fully acting "proper" for a gentleman from his time (and yes, this also includes his gayass actions towards Jonathan, as that kind of thing was considered "highly improper for a man" back then).

Spw referring to Jonathan as "san" ("Joestar-san") in the original and not "sama" nor referring to him as "lord/sir" like Spw does when he's talking about George I i.e, denotes a sense of closeness between Jonathan and him despite the mandatory Victorian etiquette of addressing people by their last names (i'll explain a bit more about this in the next point). The "san" honorific denotes respect and a sense of "equality" between the speaker and the receiver, too and which is usually denoted further by context.

The fact that Spw uses "Joestar" instead of "Jonathan" in a lot of instances responds to the fact that, in Victorian times, it was considered incredibly rude to address others by their first name, especially in public, save for veeery specific cases, which I'll explain next, and which is also a rule in the Japanese language. Generally speaking, both languages have a Last-Name/First-Name basis.

Those specific cases I mentioned were reserved for family and lovers and, with that in mind, it's also worth noting that there are at least a couple times where Spw refers to Jonathan as "Jojo" on screen!! Not even his name, but his nickname! shouting it, and in a crowded room in one of those instances, no less. With all that in consideration, this would suggest that he did this a lot more times offscreen as well, when they were in private and didn't have to adhere to the etiquette as much or at all.

It is also important to remark here that Speedwagon's only name in canon was just "Speedwagon" when PB's manga was being serialized. His other name(s) were never mentioned in the story, and the anime kept that the same (some subs/dubs include his full name for some reason?? but no, it's never actually mentioned in the original). The rest of his name -Robert E.O.- (with the E. and the O. never being disclosed what they stand for, btw) was disclosed in his canon bios only, along with his birthday date and other basic info, and including stuff that had already been shown in canon as well, sometime after the manga had started being published. So, technically, Jonathan has been calling him for his first name all the time! At least according to the info available in the manga. But that's not all! There's a little more that suggest a deeper bond and relationship between them and that Araki deliberately put there to make this distinction…

…And that's the fact that Jonathan doesn't use any honorifics whenever he calls Speedwagon's name. This overlaps somewhat with what I mentioned earlier about Victorian etiquette as, in Japanese, it's a grave insult to address another person without using any honorifics -san, chan, kun, etc- unless you are either family with the other person or you are close/intimate with them. Basically, no honorifics between two persons without any negative connotations means and gives away that there's a special bond and a deep level of intimacy between the persons involved in those instances where the two are not family (siblings, parents, etc).

Plus, add the fact that male homosexuality was a huge taboo and actually illegal and punisheable by the law in Victorian England, and you'll understand why a man addressing another man -especially if there was anything romantic or close to it between them- by his last name in public was mostly a necessity to "keep the appearances".

Same when people -usually haters and dudebros tbh- try to dismiss or downplay their relationship and the importance of it by saying stuff like "they didn't even know each other long enough" and ignoring the fact that, as stated before, they knew each other and hung around together longer than most other Jojos and their respective "Jobros" in other parts did.

Needless to talk about Speedwagon's feelings for Jonathan and the many MANY instances where he -shamelessly- shows and even speaks about them because, well, IT'S SO VERY OBVIOUS and has even been acknowledged not only by himself in his dialogues, mentioning his own deep fondness for Jonathan at least twice, but it's also been addressed in his canon bios and other official Jojo media. Or when their seiyuus have also discussed the topic, sometimes in official Jojo shows and etc like Jojo Radio (heck, even the voice actor in the US dub has talked about Speedwagon being gay and his feelings for Jonathan in some of his interviews and press conferences too, lol), addressing the chemistry both characters have and how important they are to each other, sometimes even speaking In Character while doing so.

So, yeah, there's always been a mutual respect and understanding between Jonathan and Speedwagon, along with lots of mutual love and caring that is shown through their actions, even the smallest ones, like them watching each other's backs over and over again, sharing similarities but also plenty of differences, their bonding from the very beginning of their story together, helping each other grow and become a better version of themselves, giving themselves time to grieve and providing each other with the opportunities and the comfort to do so, stepping in to fill in what the other might be lacking, taking care of each other and even tending to each other's wounds (physical and emotional, because yes! it was also implied that Jonathan most likely did his mourning by Spw's side, since even in BT there were plenty of things Erina didn't know a single thing about and that Robert DID know), teaching each other new things about the world around them and just growing and improving together. All this while there's also plenty other things implied through their mannerisms and "small" things such as the way they address each other while in public, which only speaks further and reveals what kind of close relationship and actual bond they developed in private ever since they met in Ogre Street. A bond so deep and strong it lasted for decades, throughout generations, leaving a huge mark on the world even long after both passed away, and which can be attested for with the existence of the Speedwagon Foundation, for example, and the fact that it was born out of that love and it was literally a monument to that bond between them and the unyielding love that cemented it.

And yeah!! I absolutely agree with you, Anon!! Jonathan is a lot more perceptive and sensitive towards other people's feelings than people give him credit for, and a good proof of that would be the later part of his fight against Bruford, for instance. So, just like it happened between him and Erina, Jonathan would have definitely noticed Speedwagon's feelings towards him (assuming he hadn't yet during those months of peace and quiet after the trip to Windknight's Lot), even more so considering how freaking obvious and not subtle at all Robert is when it comes to Jonathan and, based on what's been discussed here so far, I have no doubts he would definitely reciprocate those feelings.

In general, some pining is fine, and I actually love some of that when it's done right, too. The ship even kind of allows for some pining and angst (especially with Jonathan's early -unfair and cruel, too- passing away :c), just not in the Strictly One-Sided way that some folks keep pushing after over-looking a good deal of the characters' traits and the actual depth of their relationship. If you ask me?? The real kind of pining I'd see between them would be mutual pining, both being in love but being afraid to ruin things between them despite the Very Obvious signs (as a gay guy myself, I can tell you: We are pretty fucking dumb sometimes when it comes to love), a fear aided by the rigid views of their time towards romances between men and the consequences this could have, and thus keeping quiet about the true depth and nature of their feelings, letting them go unsaid but always letting them show regardless until one of them finally gives in and lets it out with all its words, whether it is planned or entirely by accident. This also aided by the fact that Jonathan is also in love with Erina, and the fact that he comes from a "traditional" household, so there's always the possibility that he might need a liiittle help from our fave gay icon Robert Speedwagon to come to terms with his feelings and finally come out, and so on.

Papyton

Like many other autistic people, I related strongly to Laios Touden while reading Dungeon Meshi. This post isn't going to spend time disputing whether he displays autistic traits or not—while I could do that, I want to focus on why specifically his portrayal struck a chord with me in a way the writing of most other autistic-coded characters has not.

Disclaimer: as the above suggests, this post is strongly informed by my own experiences as an autistic person, as well as the experiences of my neurodivergent friends with whom I have spoken about this subject. I want to clarify that in no way am I asserting my personal experience to be some Universal Autistic Experience. This post is about why Laios' character feels distinct and significant to me in regard to autistic representation, and while I'm at it, I do feel that I have interesting things to say about autistic representation in media generally. This also got a bit long, so I'm sticking it under a read more. Spoilers for up to the end of chapter 88 below.

@sabertoothwalrus's tags were something i needed to see for myself and well

also.. this came up. idk it was funny to me